How are today's youth weathering the storm of the cost-of-living crisis while keeping their fingers firmly on the pulse of culture and beauty standards? This week's episode features Tumisha and Alvin of Tag Agency, who discuss the findings from their $penny Report. This report highlights this generation's resilience, embracing thrifting and DIY to maintain their identity.
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How are today's youth weathering the storm of the cost-of-living crisis while keeping their fingers firmly on the pulse of culture and beauty standards? This week's episode features Tumisha and Alvin of Tag Agency, who discuss the findings from their $penny Report. This report highlights this generation's resilience, embracing thrifting and DIY to maintain their identity.
FOLLOW PENNIES TO POUNDS 💸
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/penniestopoundspod/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/penniestopound
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@penniestopounds?_t=8ZGvHcCqLIs&_r=1
LinkedIn - https://uk.linkedin.com/company/pennies-to-pounds
Website - www.penniestopounds.co.uk
Contact - info@penniestopounds.co.uk
Hey guys, and welcome back to the Penny to Pounds podcast with your host, kia, and this is a podcast where we aim to dispel your myths, simplify difficult financial jargon and rectify your own personal problems. Happy Monday, everyone. I hope you're having a great start to your week and to add to that, I have got another amazing episode. We are gonna be talking about all things money. Naturally, it's a Penny to Pounds podcast, but we're going a bit deeper. We're going to talk about how it's actually affecting you guys at home cost of living, what does that mean for how you were just spending your money? And I've got some amazing guests to help me do this. They have put together something really incredible, but I won't let them explain it, so guess who are you hi, I'm Tim O'Shea and I co-run tag agency.
Speaker 3:I'm Alvin and I co-run it with Tim O'Shea um. Should I explain what tag is? Yes, please? So it's a youth culture and creative agency, connecting brand into youth culture, building worlds, telling stories, driving business results, but I think most importantly um investing in young people, culture and communities so what made you guys want to start this agency and you know be in this world?
Speaker 2:we grew up in. I grew up in south london, he grew up in east london and every we both wanted to be bankers because that we thought that was the only way to make money. Um, and like we would go to like these events and they always, like, labeled us like underrepresented and like marginalized, etc. And we are marginalized. But I I feel like growing up I had all the latest clothes, I weren't struggling, I had food in my house, um, so tag actually stands for the advantage group, because we never felt unlike, we were at a disadvantage, um, and then alvin really just wanted to help young people and then he threw an event at google and then I jumped on the bandwagon and then, yeah, that's it really amazing how it started.
Speaker 3:And then, in 2020, I think, at the height of the global pandemic and global Black Lives Matter protests, we were like speaking with a lot of brands and we realised the ways they were working were quite like extractive. So we said, let's try something new. So we were just like, oh yeah, we should become an agency. We should become an agency. Basically the same work creating opportunity for young people, but getting like brands to like put their money where their mouth is um.
Speaker 1:And so in 2020 we pivoted and we've been an agency since then it's amazing to have an agency like yours that is really shining a light and being that beacon for young people. You guys have recently released something that, prior to this recording, I was fully aware of, so I'd gone through it I thought was incredible. But tell us what it is and what made you guys want to put it together cool.
Speaker 2:So we released a report called the spenny report. Um, it was actually alvin's idea, like I think, like last year, he was like, oh, I think we should do a report, we don't know what on, and we were just like brainstorming. Brainstorming, he said, oh, we should do it on the cost of living. Um, so we had many stages to it.
Speaker 2:It actually started in like january 2020 last year, basically um and essentially we gathered 80 young people, um, and we threw a vision board party to sort of collect the insights, see what, like how the cost of living is affecting them, how they're dreaming in a crisis, etc. And then we took all of those insights and turned it to a report, so it sort of discusses how young people are playing, eating, loving, literally spending their money, and where they're going now.
Speaker 1:And yeah, it's such a good read because I went through it and it's just a really good insight. Obviously, you have your peers, you have your friends, you know how it's affecting people. But when you put it on a bigger scale like that, you're like wow, it's really. People are really feeling that pinch. So let me ask you are some of the the top things that came out of that report that you'd say?
Speaker 3:having like kind of co-wrote parts of it. It's like there was always, there was always new things. That like stood out to me. I think I'm always particularly I'm interested in like fashion and beauty just more generally. Um and like how we like perceive it and like, I think, the idea that it's like more difficult to be beautiful. It's always been difficult to be beautiful. It's now even more difficult to be beautiful and, as a result, what we're seeing is that people are just taking it into their own hands From like thrifting to DIY and to like essentially anything that you might have that might have had like a huge cost to it. I'm going to try it at home, like even to the extent that invasive procedures people are doing at home.
Speaker 1:People are piercing their own ears, which actually they should.
Speaker 3:Genuinely, I don't care, you should not be doing that, we'll figure something out, like I'm gonna talk to you, but like I think the yeah, I think the pressure to be beautiful, and now we we spoke yesterday somewhere and I said I think this is a real opportunity for us to like kind of just redefine what we see is beautiful and, I guess, open the barriers to entry to an extent, because it doesn't have to be this hard to be beautiful.
Speaker 1:That it doesn't it really really so expensive so expensive and I just don't think.
Speaker 2:I think social media is great, but I also don't think it makes it easier when you're seeing and actually an influencer did a video on this of like saying guys, like you can use similar products to me, but don't buy everything I have, because I get gifted so much, and I really appreciated that transparency. So it was each a. I really appreciate that transparency because you'll have young girls just like oh, I need to buy this, I need to buy that for my makeup to look like this. But I think it's important that like people step up and say, like yo, I'd be getting this stuff for free, right? Because you have young girls like looking up to them and wanting to like essentially, look like them and spending all their money.
Speaker 1:I think that is almost like the cost of social media, because people always put the best versions of themselves online. So if we bring it back to beauty, people are always going to show themselves at their best, show their best products, and I've known people who um wanted to get into like creating makeup videos and obviously for them to be able to launch their career, they would do their makeup and lie about the products that they were using because obviously you know they don't have the products, but they're saying I'm using this
Speaker 2:really expensive thing. They don't have it. They're using like yeah and like even, or like if a brand was like. I remember like I heard that like A girl was getting gifted by a brand Skincare but she hated the skincare. So she would say this is what she's using Because they're paying her, but she was actually using Her like normal products, think it's hard.
Speaker 1:It's very, very hard. But I think on the flip side I don't know about you guys, but I'm seeing a lot more diy. Here's how you do your own hair lashes, you know, for women, all these kind of things that you can do at home, which I think has really given rise to people cutting back and saying you know, I can make these changes and I think, from the fashion standpoint, like I'm a thrifter at heart anyway, like I'm a thrift anything I'm gonna like sell, replace, rebuy, etc.
Speaker 2:And I feel like it feels less like a taboo to like buy secondhand clothes now, which is amazing because I'm still buying like pretty expensive things but I'm getting it for a third of the price like I've won, like genuinely I get like jean-paul of ebay and stuff like that for 50 pounds, I'm not complaining um. So I think that there's also like the flip side where, like, people are being a bit more transparent and not spending thousands of pounds on clothes that they might like but can't afford.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think um tutorial culture on tiktok has helped that quite a bit as well, like anything you might want to do. I know that the girls have been doing this on youtube for a while, but on that tiktok it's like in one minute you can. I always say I personally. So I believe that I've never done it before, but I think I can lay down a frontal.
Speaker 2:I just you think you can do it, I think I can do it. I keep saying this to people.
Speaker 3:I just need someone to give me the opportunity but like genuinely you've watched enough to be fair, a lot has come on to the point where I believe I can't do my own hair, but like what I have to do is comb it, but like I genuinely believe I can do a frontal.
Speaker 1:So I think tutorial culture has like stepped in at the right time whereby, like again affordable, it's more accessible to be beautiful too yeah, and I think it like you mentioned about like that taboo and stigma around it that's now being removed, because I know back in the day, if you had people doing their own hair, you think, oh my gosh, you just can't afford it. I can afford to go and get my hair done. You're doing your own hair now. You're like, oh my gosh, you did your own, show me, tell me. Now you really want to know, like, oh, you can do it, I can do it too. So I think that's really good. Let's just take it more broadly now. So how, from your research, how have you found that young people are being affected generally with the cost of living crisis?
Speaker 2:you know what? It's interesting because alvin said something the other day and I thought it was quite interesting that like one thing about our community, especially like black man, everything's a joke. So you'll be on twitter and everyone is literally making everyone into a joke because if you don't laugh, you will cry and I, I, my friends, will make a joke about me as well. Like so in my, in my house we use Lopak, it's my mom's favorite butter, et cetera. Like even to this day, we still use Lopak, but like I am like seven pounds.
Speaker 3:It's hefty now, and I used to be a Lopak babe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's actually really hefty, but like, my mom's not going to change it, but like I guess the we're aware of it and people are definitely having more conversations about it, but everyone is just making it a joke.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think to add on to that as well, I think we make it a joke because we have to, because in the report we kind of speak about this idea of perma-crisis, but it's the idea that we're always in a state of crisis in the uk from like um, cultural wars on that gender to austerity, to um like declining youth services, from a few pandemics to protests. That is always another reason why we should be like stressed, worried, anxious, um, and like I think the gen z young people right now have like developed a like collective resilience that says, actually, I'm just going to get it regardless is when we had the vision board session, I remember towards the end of it we was like, yeah, so, guys, are you still dreaming this year?
Speaker 2:And they're like yeah, and I think it's interesting that you say that, because I always like talk about how I feel. Like our parents came here with like really good PR, like it was like the land of gold, land of opportunity, and like we've just like been plotted in it, and like we don't. We don't feel the same way our parents felt and I do think that like again, I'm just guessing that a lot of people will begin to like move outside the UK but for whilst we're here, we're going to sort of like use what we have, I guess, and like enjoy what is available and like enjoy our family, enjoy our friends, and like yeah, I don't think, I don't think yeah it's, it's such an interesting place.
Speaker 1:So I'm another traveler, right, I travel all the time. Everyone in the podcast knows I travel all the time and I've been to many countries. Some are because he must have living in, some are just a great destination to visit, right. And it's this weird thing when I leave the uk, I'm like, oh my gosh. You can say miserable people who big up the uk. I'm like, no, it's such a miserable place, like, oh, it's horrible, right. But then when I'm away for too long, I'm always like I want to come home, like I have this sense. I think it's community. Yeah, I think that's what it is. I think it's the community.
Speaker 2:If I could literally pick up my family and friends and bring them with you, I'll be gone. Yeah, I genuinely think it's community and like even in the report we talk about, like how everyone's outside but it looks different now, so like there's a lot of third spaces, and like with the declining youth service after lockdown, everyone's outside but they're not outside partying, they're outside running, they're outside trying new activities, and I think that, um, if we could generally pick up our friends and move and start again somewhere else, we would. We would yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So I want to pick up back what you just said. There was my next question. So, like you mentioned in the report, people are going out right. There's so many. I think we're living in a good time. There are so many events going on, especially a bank holiday. You're having to pick and choose where you're gonna go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're literally being spoiled when it's half like half term and bank holidays right, but all of that costs money. There's so many things, a lot of these things are moving abroad now. People are having massive festivals, all of that. What I ever see is tweets about how much I just pay for this ticket. I want to go to that thing. Is that ticket? What did your report find? I know you touched a little bit, but what did it find when it comes to people going out and having that community and being with their friends? I think lockdown for me especially changed my perspective of what seeing friends and hanging out with friends meant. I used to think it meant we have to go and have lunch, we have to go and have dinner and then, because we didn't have that option, was removed from us. It was like, oh, let's just go for a walk or let's just meet up for a coffee. You know it didn't have to be expensive things, but what did your report find with regards to that?
Speaker 3:just to echo to michelle as in. So people, I think, will still be outside and there's still this big desire because if you're locked in for a long time you have to be outside. But then when you come back outside and you see that the drink prices are like astronomical, you see that the ubers, you see that your favorite venues are closing down, you actually start to interrogate a little bit more and say, uh, actually, is this like? Is this the same part? And it's what I'm saying all the time is this the same part?
Speaker 3:you've been going through since you were 18 and here some sometimes the same music, same. So I think people are like experimenting with like what like play pleasure, leisure looks like in their life, um, and so like. We had an event the other day. We had um tommy from soft life ski on the um on the panel and he was essentially speaking about like it isn't.
Speaker 3:When you think of like, I guess like marginalized communities in his case that black communities in the UK you think, oh yeah, they don't want to spend money, they don't want to spend money. Actually, that's not true. He said that what people spent money to go do a luxury activity which is like skiing and hemp style, but instead what I think was important to them was value for money. So it's like once they this is an activity that's thrown to them, so it meant so once they pay their money, they know that hotel was sorted, the transport, the. They knew the parties, they knew the djs, they felt a certain level of safety that the security would look after them and it's like foreign country and like it's like I think that's where people just want more value for play because, they still want to play.
Speaker 3:They must play because you have to play in this, you know, I mean in this dunya. However, like the, I think so.
Speaker 2:Value for money is a big thing um anything else on I just think as well, they want to experience new things so like and I don't know if, when you've been doing like I'm, says I really I hardly ever go out to party anymore because I genuinely feel like it's always the same faces, always the same experience, um, and I just don't want it. I don't want that anymore. Um, and that's why people will spend money on holidays because you experience a new culture, right, and I think that, like, soft life ski have found the, the pinnacle point of like okay, we're gonna take a group of people who've never been skiing before abroad and they're gonna spend the money and enjoy their time skiing because they've never done it before. So I think that, like, people are still spending money and like they're probably spending more money on play than they are on like necessities.
Speaker 3:That's just the reality.
Speaker 2:But because it's a big part of our community, right and like it just needs to look different, Like it can't be just a normal party and I think we spoke a lot about.
Speaker 3:I think there was a big push from brands in like the last year or so. I think big push from brands in like the last year or so. I think I don't know if it's because of budgets, I don't know if it's because of social culture, but a lot of the events, a lot of the free things that were happening, were for influencer only yes, so they got like really like closed, in which meant it's like another thing like the venues closed and etc.
Speaker 3:It's another thing that created like a barrier to entry. So then you're seeing, so in london you actually can do a lot of, and lond is expensive.
Speaker 1:Hey, don't let me no I don't want to like say what are you talking about?
Speaker 3:You just have no, no, no, truly no. London is really expensive and, at the same time, an event by a DICE, a resident advisor, certain pages and communities and collectives like N events, um, and I think that's because and they aren't like just influencers and they aren't just like cloud based and just people who want to to connect and like meet other people.
Speaker 3:Um, we spoke at um yeah we spoke at an event, um, whereby, like, just creatives are coming together. That was run by like 66 agency, um. So, yeah, I think those things are like popping up, like more and more. They aren't like permanent spaces, but they are like these temporary third spaces where people can come together, which I think we'll see a lot more of yeah, I think it's just so important to have community.
Speaker 1:I think, growing up, uh, you know, obviously you have your school friends, you have the friends you meet along the way, but then you realize you know there's actually a whole life and whole thing that I could get involved in, especially when you have a hobby. You know people like you mentioned earlier about running and stuff. There's some it's really useful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm gonna make a point because fem said something. He was also on the breakfast and he said that like community doesn't have to be for everyone.
Speaker 2:Like you're allowed to like niche down on your community so for example, I go step every tuesday right and like I invited one of my friends and she was like I don't have rhythm, I'm not coming, just like you know what. Fair enough, but me and my best friend we go every week and it's our bonding activity. Now we run every Thursday together as well, and I think that like sometimes Is that women's only?
Speaker 1:Are you interested? No, I'm just kidding. No, I'm just kidding, you're interested.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is women's only it's something that we do together every week and then I've built like friendships in there as well, because we all have the same interest that we are like doing together if that makes sense, and I think that sometimes people think that like they always try, like box gen z, they try and block, block marginalized groups. We're not the same type of people. We all have different interests and I think that the spending report touches well on like how you can navigate different types of marginalized groups yeah, it's so important.
Speaker 1:So important like I love books but I love crime fiction, like it's very specific nearly there's a book book club for that on youtube. Yeah, because I've been looking because all my friends are like okay, everyone wants to read that non-fiction self-help which I get. I don't mind a little bit of that sprinkled in, but I love a good bit of of fiction like getting my brain churning. That's me and I'm trying to find my community, so I might have to come through afterwards.
Speaker 2:I genuinely some one of the girls that work at Tag, were saying, oh yeah, like there's this book club, oh, that's me, I'm going to have to. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Let's talk their mental health and how the cost of living may or may not have affected it. So I think this is sensitive topic because we spoke to around like 180 young people um and that we found I think it was around like 60 percent of them said that there had been no change um to their like mental, physical health as a result of the cost of living crisis, as as of I think that was like jan 2023, and, at the same time, that means there are like 40 of people who have, do you know, I mean and we didn't really ask on the flip side, but like what we do know is that like financial pressures specifically for like marginalized people are like a constant, like every decision that they might make in their life, around that where they study, where they play, where they eat, what they do, who they connect with. It's kind of affected by like money and even more so, specifically, we obviously work with a lot of young creators right now who we see that personally are like feeling the pinch. So I think undeniably, we also saw that like gym memberships were down as well. That also could have meant that like people might be like finding ways to like work outside, but I actually do think that, like, health and fitness is quite um and wellness more generally is expensive um, and at the same time, I think a completely separate point is that we're also seeing this vibe shift that is moving away from, I guess, hustle culture and saying that, and I think, people working nine to five and then the five to nine and saying, actually, I just, I want to prioritize my wellness.
Speaker 3:I saw a term called them, like Gen Zen, and that was the idea that like a generation who's prioritizing their well-being over like their labor and things like. And I remember I don't remember if anyone remembers, but it was like a year or two years ago Anytime someone would ask you, oh, what's your dream job? People would say, oh, I don't dream of labor, and I remember that, like seeing that I'm thinking, oh my God yes, because I essentially kind of do my dream job now but like so laborious, so laborious.
Speaker 3:As in like, if I could, if there was an option to like not do nothing and be like and be completely wealthy, yo I'm gonna-.
Speaker 1:I think most people would just take that I'm gonna pick it.
Speaker 3:Do you know what I mean? And so I think the I think we're starting to imagine alternatives around that. Yeah, I think that was the general sentiment. So I think, just naturally, because it'd be irresponsible for us to come here and say, oh, people are resilient and they're fighting through. No, a lot of people are going through as a result, and I think Young Minds has like a stronger report on the effects of finances and how it affects young people, young people's mental health.
Speaker 1:Amazing. I want to talk about another topic, then, a really big topic. If you go to any podcast, there's always some conversation around it. Right, it's love, love, huh, there's always a conversation around love. So I think that's often something that's left out. You know, whenever we talk about money, we're talking about it with regards to every. Is there an impact? Has there been an impact of love and money? Would it cost a crisis?
Speaker 2:100%. I think somewhere in the report it says that, like in about 30 countries, the average date price is 100 pounds. Um, and I went to Nando's the other day if you're eating for two, it's about like 50 to 60 pounds. It used to cost 30 pounds. So there's definitely like pressure and I think again I'm just making an assumption that it's probably affecting men more than it's affecting women because they would pay for dates more and I think the way people date now is going to be completely different.
Speaker 2:People aren't going out as I'm in a relationship going then people aren't going out as much Like people are being a bit more intentional with like if they're really dating someone, they have to like there has to be more than just like this conversation that they might be able to have. There needs to be intimacy, they need to see a future of that person. But also, people are just opting out to not date anymore, like it's just too expensive. And I think that in the report we touched on about how, like you shouldn't be penalized for being single or choosing to be single because your money just doesn't stretch that far. But I think often our society are quick to call people like broke if they don't want to pay for a date or they don't want to go on date, but like actually no, I just have other priorities right now and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Um, and I also think that, like people are dating themselves, people are learning themselves as well. Like I've said, we've had like we've had back to back, like we've had the cost of living crisis. We then, before that, we had lockdown, before we had black lives matter. So I think people are just like relearning themselves, dating themselves before they can extend to date someone else. And people are dating their friends, which 50 50 split. We go on a date, you pay your price, I pay my price and I think that that's okay and people need. I think, like we need to like shift our mindset of like if a guy can't pay for a date and then he's broke, etc. Like if you're really dating for love and you're dating for your future, then you should be okay both spending money in that relationship to make that person happy. Girls, if you want to attack me, that's, that's between you and your girl. I'll be real. But like, I just think that like where people are going, if they're choosing to date, it's because they're dating long term, and long term looks different.
Speaker 3:It doesn't look like spending x amount every single week or one person pouring in and the other not, um, so yeah I remember at the time of writing the report there was an uptick in the sales of all about love by um bell hooks and I think that was an interest and if you note that in the report and that was interesting to see, I think there is um, I think, to obviously spend the time to understand love feels like people are doing a lot more like work around, like what it means to be in, like loving relationships, rather than just like I think, when we all have money, what like let's, let's, I can do a million. When I have money, what?
Speaker 1:what do you like me?
Speaker 3:I'm gonna go on dates. I'm gonna go on dates because it's fun, because you get to do the things that you want to do. You get to like maybe meet new people. I think I have quite a positive outlook on I'm not like jaded yet, like but um, yeah, I think the but.
Speaker 3:However, when I saw the uptick in like all about love, I think it pointed towards the sign of actually um, that love is an investment and that the rewards are like intimacy and care and respect and understanding, all those like really beautiful, important things that we all deserve. However, if it's too expensive, it means that we're kind of living in a world where people are like kind of devoid of that, particularly like young people who are from like marginalized backgrounds, which is quite like, I guess, like upsetting and, I think, just like reiterating the thing around. How do we not penalize people? Reiterating the thing around, how do we not penalize people? How do you create like events and opportunities whereby people can still be afforded and spaces where people can be afforded intimacy, care, respect, because all those things you can get platonically, you can get it from family, you can also get it from a partner over time. Um, you like there are just, we just have to like, imagine alternative.
Speaker 3:I keep saying that, but we just have to that right now really we have to get inventive, because you still deserve love and because they're genuine. There'll be a young boy right now who'll be sitting at home saying, oh yeah, I want to, I want to be in a relationship, I want a partner, and actually I don't know my gender. It could be anyone sitting at home saying I want this, um, and then society will tell you because you can't afford the date, that's 150 pounds.
Speaker 2:You're not deserving of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's deserving of it. And that is when it gets like problematic. But like I really did see, I remember when we held the vision board um workshop, I remember on one table there was there was like a group of young women who were like oh yeah, we're decentering men, we're going on friends dates, men are mad, that type of thing. And then there was another 24 year old. That was just like, uh, she's a real, like a real young. She's like, yeah, me and my boyfriend are getting married. I love when young people get married, get married I don't know why, especially when it's just on their own accord, no, like outside cultural pressure, it's just like just because they're in love you know people are just like I'm going to new york, we're're getting married.
Speaker 3:I'm going to New York, we're getting married. So I think across the board there's a spectrum, but it is ultimately a little bit more difficult to love.
Speaker 2:And I think that somewhere in the report as well, we talk about like people that are already in love and in relationships, and how they're like able to split costs and how that's like benefiting them and how it feels more like I want to say companionship. Rather, it feels like they're both sharing the burden of the cost of living crisis, which is also interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I said I put on my story this morning and I said I want to put it out to the world. If anyone wants to fall in love so we can go to Soho Farmhouse, let me know. Let me know because I'm available.
Speaker 1:The call out was there. We're going to put all the details in the link straight to you, for sure, the call out was there. If you wanna, you know we're gonna put all the details In the link. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3:So straight to you? For sure, no, but literally we had it's out of home, go out into the world, and I think One of the questions Was one of the copy Was like Is it love or is it Inflationship? And like it's real Because that if you that it's expensive, if you that is expensive to live, to exist in London. If you're in a relationship, sometimes there's things that just split it up.
Speaker 2:There's this thing on TikTok as well. I hate the way. Like anyway, there's this thing on TikTok, right, and it's like every time you leave your house with your partner, and like it's like the man leaves his house by himself and he's not spending that much money as soon as he leaves it, and my wife is like this is you, and I'm just thinking that I don't think that's fair, because like do I mean? But like I do think that there is this like thing that women are more likely to spend than men anyway, and men are a bit more like conscious and like building for their future. The pressures are completely different. Do you get what I mean? And I think that men are probably subconsciously thinking further ahead than like how they can save for, like marriage etc. And like choosing. Actually, no, I'm not ready for that, so I'm not even going to commit to anyone right now, but then it just makes finding love even harder. It does.
Speaker 1:I know, I know, but I feel like, from everything that you said, there is still hope. I think that's that's that's the key thing. There is still hope. You just have to get creative. It's not just might just not be the hackasan and the no boos that is always on social media might have to be I mean, and social media shouldn't tell you that if your partner isn't taking you to these places, it? Means they don't love you or they don't they're not worthy to like you're not.
Speaker 2:They don't find you worthy absolutely.
Speaker 1:This has been such a good conversation, really really good. Before we end, I want to ask you both what is one key insight that you want our viewers and listeners to resonate with when it comes to the reports? Like one key insight that maybe shocked you, or one that you think, yeah, everyone should remember this from the report?
Speaker 3:I think it's always going to come down to like like beauty and desirability bits for me, like it's just so I think important, and how, like how it shapes the ways we that exist, particularly as, like, marginalized folk, black people, etc. Um, so, yeah, I really really do think, guys, this is like a beautiful opportunity for us, um to just like tear it all down. Tear it down like it don't have to exist in the way it has. We don't have to all collectively put the pressure on each other, um, like if we all just decide, like you know, we want to be butters like in unity, let's all just decide like just put it down, like let's let's effort less, less stress, less pressures, less, just less.
Speaker 3:I think is. I think right now is a moment where we could practice less um, because I think society has told us like more for so long, and I think that is, I think that's what the report is, that I think teaching me more and more like every time I kind of go back into it it's like, oh, actually, no, we don't need that, and actually we don't need that and actually we don't need that um, and again we can like imagine alternatives. I think that's my biggest learning slash insight.
Speaker 2:I think mine would be about being outside.
Speaker 2:I think that sometimes you can feel pressured if you don't want to go to a party, and this is for young people.
Speaker 2:You can feel pressured if you don't want to go to a party, you don't want to go to a concert, but I think that outside looks different now and I think it's okay for you to say, as an individual, actually I don't want to go there, but I'm going to go here by myself and meet new people that like and have similar interest to you.
Speaker 2:And I think again, the rise in the third spaces is so beautiful and I always say that like we had this, it was in community centers and they took them away from us and I really like how people are growing their own first spaces and like niches that find they find interesting and there's a lot of affordable, free ones. Like I go to a run community every thursday, um, and it's free. You go, you run, you meet people that run and like will give you the confidence to get better at it, and then you go home and I think it's nice to do other things outside partying, which for a long time, it felt like our culture was so centered around, like music and partying when there's so much more to us. So, yeah, I think that's the most interesting.
Speaker 3:Love that.
Speaker 1:Amazing. I like both of your insights. Thank you For everyone listening and watching. Where can they find you and find out more about the report?
Speaker 3:Sure so for the report, you download it on tagagencycouk.
Speaker 2:Just to let you know the link is not broken as well. It's just part of the bigger, wider marketing scheme.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, download there. We also have a resource hub that we update quite regularly and that has that. So we're here telling you about oh yeah, you can do this free thing. No, the free things we're talking about they're in our bio and that's around like you get to shadow senior creatives, free wellness classes for LGBTQI plus people, a community for South Asian creatives, like really a lot of like free things in our bio on social.
Speaker 2:And I think just adding to that as well even if it's as simple as like sign up to a Tesco club card collecting your nectar points, because you can save money on that if you're not already signed up to those things.
Speaker 3:And say anything, oh, and follow us at Tag Agency UK. My say anything, oh and follow us at tag agency UK. My socials personally are Alvin Owusu, just like my name and mine is Tim O'Lagan amazing.
Speaker 1:All the links will be in the episode description as well, so you don't have to try and remember it as you're listening. You can click and go and find it. Thank you so much for watching. I'll be back again next week.